Ottawa Confederation Line LRT (City of Ottawa, U/C)

[gweed123]

Looks like the choices of the Western LRT extension alignment are down to Carling or Byron: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/inclined+light+rail+onto+Parkway/4909065/story.html

I personally favour trenching along the Byron corridor. If you're spending all that money to have the LRT be 100% grade-separated between Blair and Tunney's Pasture, why would you leave 1 section between Westboro and Lincoln Fields as in-median (the Carling option), only to have it be grade-separated again to Baseline? All that would do is create a choke-point on the system.

 

[Mapleson]

^^ The LRT isn't grade seperated between Blair and Nicholas or LeBreton and Tunney's Pature, only the middle downtown section is grade-seperated.

 

[kEiThZ]

^^ The LRT isn't grade seperated between Blair and Nicholas or LeBreton and Tunney's Pature, only the middle downtown section is grade-seperated.

Does grade separation matter in this instance? The Transitway is fully segregated in an exclusive ROW from Blair till Laurier. The LRT will be fully segregated, even if it's not grade-separated. But if they go down Carling, then you'll end up with a ROW that's not fully segregated. That's the problem.

I can't see them doing it. But stranger things have happened.

 

[gweed123]

^^ The LRT isn't grade seperated between Blair and Nicholas or LeBreton and Tunney's Pature, only the middle downtown section is grade-seperated.

There will not be a single at-grade crossing along the entire DOTT route.

 

[Mapleson]

There will not be a single at-grade crossing along the entire DOTT route.

Ah, conflation of terms. Aye, there won't be any at-grade crossings, but they are building only two new ones for it. If common sense wins out they'll have the whole corridor segregated, if not all grade-seperated.

 

[nfitz]

Ah, conflation of terms. Aye, there won't be any at-grade crossings, but they aren't building new ones for it. If common sense wins out they'll have the whole corridor segregated, if not all grade-seperated.

It will be, won't it? Isn't most of the corridor other than the middle downtown section already grade-separated?

 

[Mapleson]

It will be, won't it? Isn't most of the corridor other than the middle downtown section already grade-separated?

Sorry, that "whole corridor" was including the western 'extension'.
The whole BRT route being upgraded to LRT (excluding LeBreton to Nicholas) already has grade-seperated intersections.

I just remembered that there are two new grade seperations proposed: one at Ottawa Train Station and one to cross under the 417.

 

[Markster]

I'm still rooting all the way for Carling.

Putting the rapid transit line next to a river is absurd, and as much as the Ottawa River Parkway lunacy, the Richmon/Byron route is barely better. In addition, the communities along Richmond Rd/Byron are notoriously anti-intensification.

Carling meanwile, has lots of pre-existing services, is more centrally located in the city, and has large parcels of land that don't abut single detatched homes and are much more favourable to development.

I've seen in-median rail in action in Edmonton, and on a nice wide avenue like Carling, it can work. So long as the turn from Churchill (or whatever it takes south from Westboro) to Carling is grade separated, it'll be fine.

Politically, if they chose Richmond/Byron there would always be some pressue to put "something" on Carling. Notice how all transitway maps have that thin purple line along Carling. I would bet that if they just chose Carling in the first place, that there would be no such thought to putting something along Richmond/Byron. Building on Carling will ultimately mean saving the cost of whatever that extra "something" was going to be.

 

[accura407]

In reference to Carling: Its only 3.7KM that has to be at Grade along Carling...
Calgary has 4.1km of its North-East Light Rail Line along 36th St and it works INCREDIBLY WELL!

I used to be very negative about light rail operating efficiently in boulevard medians because Toronto does such a terrible job but ever since i came to Calgary for the summer its amazing how much priority is given to the line on 36th St. Theres so many crossings and its so urbanized yet it works flawlessly...

The portion of the line between the transit way and Carling is another question...all the avenues look quite narrow...

 

[gweed123]

I'm still rooting all the way for Carling.

Putting the rapid transit line next to a river is absurd, and as much as the Ottawa River Parkway lunacy, the Richmon/Byron route is barely better. In addition, the communities along Richmond Rd/Byron are notoriously anti-intensification.

Is that why Westboro (which would be right on the line if it were to use the Richmond/Byron corridor) is the hottest spot in the entire city for intensification? Seriously, there are more infill and densification projects happening in Westboro than in any other neighbourhood of the city.

Carling meanwile, has lots of pre-existing services, is more centrally located in the city, and has large parcels of land that don't abut single detatched homes and are much more favourable to development.

I've seen in-median rail in action in Edmonton, and on a nice wide avenue like Carling, it can work. So long as the turn from Churchill (or whatever it takes south from Westboro) to Carling is grade separated, it'll be fine.

Politically, if they chose Richmond/Byron there would always be some pressue to put "something" on Carling. Notice how all transitway maps have that thin purple line along Carling. I would bet that if they just chose Carling in the first place, that there would be no such thought to putting something along Richmond/Byron. Building on Carling will ultimately mean saving the cost of whatever that extra "something" was going to be.

Carling is already slated to get an in-median LRT from Lincoln Fields to Dow's Lake. It's part of the supplementary network plan. Overlapping two LRT routes on the same corridor would be a disaster, especially with the predicted ridership levels that both will have.

Trench through the Richmond/Byron corridor, and deck it over at select spots where you want to maintain the parkland. It's the best way to ensure that there aren't any choke points on the system, and it will allow Westboro (and areas west of there) to densify even more than they already are.

 

[CapitalSeven]

Part of the logic of the parkway is exactly that there is little along it. Few stops and a pretty ride will draw riders. And it would be so cheap to build that there would be money left over to build a Transit City-style line along Carling. Two lines for about the same money as Carling or Richmond as a single high capacity line. I'm not saying it's the best option, but it would do two things fairly well.

 

[gweed123]

Part of the logic of the parkway is exactly that there is little along it. Few stops and a pretty ride will draw riders. And it would be so cheap to build that there would be money left over to build a Transit City-style line along Carling. Two lines for about the same money as Carling or Richmond as a single high capacity line. I'm not saying it's the best option, but it would do two things fairly well.

I would tend to agree with that. My choices in order of preference are:

1) Grade-separated through the Richmond Corridor
2) Parkway
3) In-median along Carling

The Parkway option would certainly be the cheapest, although I would hope that they would have added in at least 1 station along that stretch (possibly at Woodroffe), so that people have at least some sort of connection to it. For the most part, there is plenty of land between the parkway itself and the houses that back onto it to fit in LRT with some appropriate buffering.

I would have no problem with TC-style LRT along Carling, as long as it's used in its proper role: as a secondary line. Medium capacity, high frequency feeder route, supplementing the main network, which is exactly how it has been planned to be in the TMP. The City has planned a bunch of these types of routes (Baseline/Heron is another example), but Carling is the only one planned to be LRT, with the rest being BRT.

Overall, I think this is exactly why this segment of the project was separated from the DOTT portion of it, because this alignment debate is going to go on for another couple of years at least. Had this have still been in the original DOTT project, it would have been just one more reason for the project to be hated. Separating them out into separate phases at least allows the preliminary work on the alignment choices to be done under the radar.

 

[kEiThZ]

I thought the Parkway had issues with super-elevation?

Certainly, if you look at a map, it does strike me that it would be a rather uncomfortable ride to go through that many twists and turns at full speed.

 

[gweed123]

I thought the Parkway had issues with super-elevation?

Certainly, if you look at a map, it does strike me that it would be a rather uncomfortable ride to go through that many twists and turns at full speed.

From what I remember, that area is pretty flat. It's only really south of there where there's an elevation.

And if you look at Google Earth, there's actually a path that shows up as a small road line (white shaded line) that runs south of the Parkway. For the most part, it's a pretty straight line, and you can see there's definitely enough room there to fit in an LRT.

 

[kEiThZ]

From what I remember, that area is pretty flat. It's only really south of there where there's an elevation.

And if you look at Google Earth, there's actually a path that shows up as a small road line (white shaded line) that runs south of the Parkway. For the most part, it's a pretty straight line, and you can see there's definitely enough room there to fit in an LRT.

I was referring to superelevation (banking). Certainly, at one consultation I had been to, it had been cited as an issue....which would require a re-configuration of the ORP.